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Balancing bumping and looting mechanics

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Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 10:47:40 - [1] - Quote I want to play in HIGHSEC and be SAFE. What is wrong with that? I want to play the game in MY way; not have someone force their game on me. I don't mind ganking; if someone wants to suicide themselves, that's cool. Happens in RL. But people are cleverly exploiting rules and game mechanics to grief other players in HIGHSEC. If you use BUMPING in an aggressive way in HIGHSEC, you should be tagged as a criminal. If you are hiding in a NPC corp while coordinating a gank fleet, you should be tagged as a criminal. Eve takes place in a very technically advanced future universe and we are talking about the most protected areas in that universe GÇô HIGHSEC. In any real, modern society, criminals are not allowed to continue their criminal acts in areas with heavy surveillance & police presence. Random violence can always happen; but it would not be allowed to continue indefinitely. Career criminals should `permanently' lose their access rights to gates leading to HIGHSEC. There are certainly other areas where they can pursue criminal activities freely. I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 11:00:00 - [2] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? That's not EVE, go play STO if you want to be safe. Don't tell me what to do.. You don't own this game. You didn't develop this game and it's not up to you to define it. I want to play THIS game and I want it to be more REALISTIC. That's all. Realism should trump douchery.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 11:23:25 - [3] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want to play the game in MY way; not have someone force their game on me. Bella Jennie wrote: Career criminals should `permanently' lose their access rights to gates leading to HIGHSEC. There are certainly other areas where they can pursue criminal activities freely. I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? bit of a contradiction Sorry, can't see it; what is the contradiction in my statements? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 11:35:12 - [4] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You're playing the wrong game, CCP define it as a PvP game at the core. Hisec is not safe, merely safer than the other places in the game, even then it's only as safe as you make it. With all due respect, I don't need to be advised what to play by you. I purposely used the word "RELATIVELY" along with safe. I'm aware of Falcon's post. I said suicide ganking is fine. Just looking for Logical Realism in rules & game mechanics. Jonah Gravenstein wrote: It's a little hypocritical to say that you should be be able to play as you want to but that others shouldn't be able to do the same. The good news is that you can play as you want to. The bad news, for you anyway, is that there is no guarantee that you'll succeed because everybody else can do the same; if you don't like that idea, there's plenty of other games out there that will cater to your wants. Again, you can play as you want to according to the rules. I'm pointing out that the rules (and gameplay mechanics) are not logical; not realistic and not in line with CCP's concept of "RISK vs REWARD". Currently the griefers can bother other players in HIGHSEC without any risk. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 11:39:13 - [5] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You wish to pursue your own path in Eve while asking CCP to deny others the opportunity to do the same; how is that not a contradiction? see my post above why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 12:42:34 - [6] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Don't tell me what to do.. You don't own this game. Not the game, but James 315 owns Highsec, so he obviously has the right to tell you what to do. If you are not ok with our established system and are more "rebel" type who enjoys anarchy and is not "cool" about how we govern modern Highsec feel free to go to nullsec where you can play the game how you want. The people elected James 315 for a reason and he established the Code for a reason. But what you can't do is eat from the sweat fruits democracy brings you but at the same time not share the values it needs to function. We just don't want people like you in our Highsec, so you better change your ways or move on. James 315 is an inventive player with very good writing skills.. I'll give him credit as far as creating "player made content".. The fact that his content - his fun - is based on harassing other players while not risking anything makes him and those who would follow, douchebags; IMHO. Remember, you cannot spell DOUCHE without CODE! Again, with all due respect, don't tell me where to go Don't tell me how to play. I want HIGHSEC to be RELATIVELY safe. I want criminal actions in HIGHSEC to have consequences. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 0	Posted - 2016.02.04 12:55:47 - [7] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want to play in HIGHSEC and be SAFE. What is wrong with that? I want to play the game in MY way; not have someone force their game on me. But people are cleverly exploiting rules and game mechanics to grief other players in HIGHSEC. If you use BUMPING in an aggressive way in HIGHSEC, you should be tagged as a criminal. If you are hiding in a NPC corp while coordinating a gank fleet, you should be tagged as a criminal. Eve takes place in a very technically advanced future universe and we are talking about the most protected areas in that universe GÇô HIGHSEC. I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? I cut out some of the lines that were either straight whine or already covered sufficiently. Good job with that one there, Scipio. 1. Absolutely nothing. I play in highsec and am almost completely safe. Then again, I treat ganker and wardeccers as actual humans, so they're nice enough to tell me how to avoid a vast majority of the dangers in this game. 2. You wanting to play the game your way is fine. However, one of the core tenets of this game is that it is a cold, harsh, cruel world where Darwinism rules. If you want to play the game your way, you have to make others allow you to do so using the established rules. You don't get to simply change the rules simply because you don't like them, they apply equally across the board. 3. Bumping has been officially declared to NOT be an exploit. Unintended use of the mechanics, yes, but not an exploit. There's a lot in EvE based on unintended use of mechanics. 4. There is absolutely no way for the server to determine the intent of a bump, therefore it is impossible for this to be applied. 5. And if someone said that if you're hiding in a NPC corp while slaughtering millions of helpless NPCs or stealing the ore from the belts/anoms in regions controlled by the NPC empires, you should be tagged as a criminal, then that would be fair. You can't apply rules unequally. They either apply to all or they apply to none. 6. EvE takes place in a dystopian future. You should probably google that so you can learn what it means. 7. If you want an area where you can be in relative peace, go join one of the big null coalitions. The problem here is that you don't want this. What you want is to farm your isk in total safety. By taking the proper precautions, you can already perform all those activities with 99.9% safety. bla bla, bla bla, bla bla bla.. Everyone can have their own interpretation of this game.. I am sharing mine. In REAL LIFE we live in a cold, harsh, cruel world where Darwinism rules. - So I get that. Suicide gank all you want. It takes quite some effort to do it in HIGHSEC and gankers have my respect. However Unintended use of the game mechanics is an EXPLOIT - especially if it allows reward without risk. - just that CCP has not yet or is currently unable to address it. My posts are intended to petition CCP to look into this seriously and expeditiously. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.02.04 13:23:38 - [8] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Actually CCP have addressed it and it specifically isn't an exploit: https://support.eveonline.com/hc/en-us/articles/204873262-Known-Declared-Exploits Common Misconceptions about Exploits This passage contains common tactics and other player conduct that is often mistakenly reported as exploits but are in fact not. ... Bumping: Ram the ship of another player with your own in order to prevent them from warping. [quote]My posts are intended to petition CCP to look into this seriously and expeditiously Rules and gameplay are constantly evolving and never static.. otherwise I wouldn't bother to petition. I can see where those who enjoy being douchebags prefer the status quo. Scipio Artelius wrote: Good luck with that Thank you! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.02.04 13:30:58 - [9] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Nothing to do with the past or the future, only the now. The claim was, it is an exploit. Present tense. It is specifically not an exploit as stated by CCP and the evidence is there for anyone to also read. I was not meaning EXPLOIT in reference to CCP's current rulings.. I meant EXPLOIT in terms of general on line gameplay across all games (the bunnyhop for example was an EXPLOIT) I want CCP to CHANGE the rules And again, the way I see it, only those who enjoy douchery would prefer a status quo why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 3	Posted - 2016.02.04 14:24:26 - [10] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: baltec1 wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? That's not EVE, go play STO if you want to be safe. Don't tell me what to do.. You don't own this game. You didn't develop this game and it's not up to you to define it. I want to play THIS game and I want it to be more REALISTIC. That's all. Realism should trump douchery.. See my opinion is that the game has been realistic since day 1. It's also my opinion that the douchery going on here is you showing up and trying to change a unique and beautiful MMO into just another cookie cutter piece of garbage where everything is safe and snuggly. I'll reword Baltec into more understandable terms so folks will small self centered cognitive functions can see it more plainly. MMOs like Eve - 0 MMOs where everything is safe and fluffy - dime a dozen and in many many flavors (including space pilot flavor) Don't come take a dump on Eve and try to conform it to what you think is right. Please pick an MMO that suits your play style and needs. Showing up here and trying to convert a beautiful sandbox to fit your own personal whims is the actuall DOUCHERY that's going on. everyone is entitled to their opinions; ours differ. I define douchery as taking pleasure in inflicting pain onto others. - especially when it is inflicted without any consequence - especially when it is inflicted on new, weaker players. Why should the rules and game mechanics favor the douchbags? to restate: games are constantly evolving. Eve has certainly evolved (and for the better!) in the case of the dynamics being discussed on this thread, only those who enjoy douchery want a status quo.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 13	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:14:58 - [11] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want to play in HIGHSEC and be SAFE. What is wrong with that? Everything about that is wrong. Quote: I want to play the game in MY way; not have someone force their game on me. Then you are playing the wrong game. EVE Online was founded on non consensual PvP. Which by the way is not "griefing", either, no matter your petty attempts at mischaracterization. Quote: I want an area where I can pursue my peaceful activities in relative peace. What's wrong with that? Everything. You have no right whatsoever to be able to pretend like this PvP sandbox MMO is a single player game. Uninstall. It is just amazing how people want to become my personal "on-line gaming consultants".. Also how many cling to the notions that CCP made this game specifically so that people could harass, annoy and grief other players without any risk or consequences.. Anyway, everyone entitled to their opinion.. Once again, I'm talking about HIGHSEC, I'm talking about assigning CONSEQUENCES to criminal behavior in HIGHSEC I have already stated that suicide ganking in HIGHSEC is fine with me.. - I respect the high degree of effort, coordination & cost required to pull it off. BUMPING on purpose without consequences in HIGHSEC is unbalanced gameplay favoring those (I call them douchebags) who would harass & annoy other players in HIGHSEC. I want CCP to change that.. I'm fairly certain that eventually, they will. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 13	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:21:49 - [12] - Quote Ima Wreckyou wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Again, with all due respect, don't tell me where to go Don't tell me how to play. I know, you think you are your own women and want do to stuff your own way. But in Highsec we are a community and we have to live together. The freedom of one person ends where the freedom of the other person starts. There is no longer anarchy in Highsec were everyone can do what he/she wants, there is now order and democracy and all that good stuff. So yes, we do tell you how you should play and what you should do because we are the guardians of this New Order of Highsec and we have to make sure you follow the law of the people, the Code. We don't do it for profit or for our amusement, but for a better Highsec for everyone. Bella Jennie wrote: I want HIGHSEC to be RELATIVELY safe. I want criminal actions in HIGHSEC to have consequences. We all want a safe Highsec and healthy citizens. That is indeed why we enforce the Code and make sure people follow the rules and don't mine and haul in an illegal way. We are the consequences. We all have to do our part to make Highsec the place we all dream of. Don't ask what Highsec can do for you. Ask what you can do for Highsec! Spouting CODE propaganda in order to defend downright douchery speaks volumes.. But then again, so does your character name. HIGHSEC is not relatively safe to my satisfaction as long as the unbalanced BUMPING rules/game mechanics remain unfixed. I have full confidence that CCP will eventually adress this for the better. - it may take time; it must not be wasy to fix. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 13	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:27:49 - [13] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Once again, I'm talking about HIGHSEC, I'm talking about assigning CONSEQUENCES to criminal behavior in HIGHSEC Are you on crazy pills? There already are consequences to criminal behaviour in highsec - liquidation by CONCORD. That is a consequence, and a pretty final one. I'm sorry, but are you so caught up on defending douchery that you're UNAWARE of this thread's major premise? Dude, we're talking about BUMPING being used as a weapon in HIGHSEC without any consequences for the bumper.. - while there is almost guaranteed destruction and loss for the bumpee. And just to be sure you fully understand, we are talking about this happening in HIGHSEC. Why have a game where the advantage is held by douchebag players. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 13	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:30:26 - [14] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I define douchery as taking pleasure in inflicting pain onto others. No one cares what you define. You don't matter. Oh, and if you feel "pain" just because you are allowed to lose in a PvP game, you have a mental problem and should seek psychological help. do you have a mental problem if you get "pleasure" from other people's sorrow? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:37:20 - [15] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: ... in terms of general on line gameplay across all games News flash: Eve Online is not like any other game. This is intentional. It was designed that way. Stop trying to make EvE not EvE. Bella Jennie wrote: And again, the way I see it, only those who enjoy douchery would prefer a status quo You see it wrong. I am a perfect example of how wrong you are. I tried ganking, or douchery as you call it. I didn't enjoy it. But, just because I didn't enjoy it doesn't mean it should be removed from the game, as is your obvious intention. I pointed this out, but you blatantly ignored it because the ideals of EvE, which I strive to live up to, don't fit into your narrow minded vision of what this game should be. You've been here for 10 days, and apparently rather than trying to adapt yourself into the game, you've decided the game must adapt to fit you. Sorry, it doesn't work that way. If you don't like the fact that ganking is permitted and encouraged in EvE, then GTFO. Contract me all your stuff, send me all your isk, biomass your characters, and unsubscribe. The day CCP makes highsec 100% safe is the day the final countdown to server shutoff begins. And yes, despite all your bleating to the contrary, highsec is already 99.9% safe. You have every tool you need to make this happen, if you simply use them. If I'm here 10 days, how much stuff could I have? You are merely another in a long line, it seems, that want to tell me what to play; how to play; and even not to play. Sorry, this is not your personal game. Don't liker my ideas? YOU GTFO. Mark my words: when they are ABLE TO, CCP will correct the unbalanced BUMPING paradigm. - anyone with reasonable logic and intelligence (and not a douchebag) could see that. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:42:45 - [16] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bumblefck wrote: What if I playfully bumped your mission battleship in my interceptor on the station undock? Would that action warrant CONCORD coming in full force and blasting me to smithereens? You would be a douchbag with mental issues. Didn't you know? Honestly, that's a strawman argument.. When CCP ultimately fixes the unbalanced BUMPING in HIGHSEC rules/mechanic, they will surely address ALL potential circumstances.. (if they miss one, THAT may become an EXPLOIT opportunity.. that's how things work) I believe you posted this just so you could write: "You would be a douchbag with mental issues. Didn't you know?" How clever.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:44:19 - [17] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Mark my words: when they are ABLE TO, CCP will correct the unbalanced BUMPING paradigm. - anyone with reasonable logic and intelligence (and not a douchebag) could see that. Do you have evidence or facts to back that up. Or should we just accept your word on it? I prefer you just accept my word.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:50:19 - [18] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I define douchery as taking pleasure in inflicting pain onto others. No one cares what you define. You don't matter. Oh, and if you feel "pain" just because you are allowed to lose in a PvP game, you have a mental problem and should seek psychological help. do you have a mental problem if you get "pleasure" from other people's sorrow? So you're suggesting playing a game that allows for you to be a pirate, means you have a mental problem if you play as a pirate? but you are allowed to post: "Oh, and if you feel "pain" just because you are allowed to lose in a PvP game, you have a mental problem and should seek psychological help" You seem like just another one caught up in the defense of douchery.. - not very noble why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:53:04 - [19] - Quote Rhamnousia Nosferatu wrote: Bumblefck wrote: Imagine you got your way, though, and CCP succumbed to the sheer weight of carebearism and made bumping a crime - where would you draw the line? They will never make bumping a crime, but they are certainly looking into bumping (in general). IF by some chance the do NOT make it a crime, I'll be very happy if they simply nerf the BUMPING mechanic altogether. - maybe that's easier for them.. They must address this; it is so obviously UNBALANCED.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 14	Posted - 2016.02.04 15:54:42 - [20] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it. assume much? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:01:06 - [21] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Honestly, that's a strawman argument.. When CCP ultimately fixes the unbalanced BUMPING in HIGHSEC rules/mechanic, they will surely address ALL potential circumstances.. (if they miss one, THAT may become an EXPLOIT opportunity.. that's how things work) I believe you posted this just so you could write: "You would be a douchbag with mental issues. Didn't you know?" How clever.. Strawman? Hardly. I'm using your logic. Prey tell how does the server know what the intentions are, behind an action? Maybe it's time to drop the emotional baggage? As funny as your trolling is, we've seen it all before. It's not original. thing is dude, that you seem butthurt because someone is trying to improve the game.. - to be more realistic - to be more "fair" in that douchery would have consequences.. You wouldn't be a proponent of wanton douchery, would you? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:04:21 - [22] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: It is just amazing how people want to become my personal "on-line gaming consultants".. Also how many cling to the notions that CCP made this game specifically so that people could harass, annoy and grief other players without any risk or consequences.. Anyway, everyone entitled to their opinion.. You do realise that the original CCP devs were Trammel refugees looking to build a game similar to Ultima Online before people like you destroyed it? Quote: Once again, I'm talking about HIGHSEC, I'm talking about assigning CONSEQUENCES to criminal behavior in HIGHSEC We're telling you that if you want consequences beyond those programmed into the game, then it is up to you to use the myriad of tools and mechanics that are universally available to all to achieve that.; on a side note, bumping isn't criminal behaviour if the system doesn't flag it as such. Quote: BUMPING on purpose without consequences in HIGHSEC is unbalanced gameplay favoring those (I call them douchebags) who would harass & annoy other players in HIGHSEC. How is it unbalanced, there are plenty of things you can do to avoid being bumped in the first place. Quote: I want CCP to change that.. I'm fairly certain that eventually, they will. I'm fairly sure that you're a troll alt, one of us is likely to be correct, probability says that it won't be you. wow, you seem like yet another butthurt proponent of douchery... I state my opinion based on valid observation and your head explodes? Sheesh! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:16:15 - [23] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Also how many cling to the notions that CCP made this game specifically so that people could harass, annoy and grief other players without any risk or consequences.. Your blatant hyperbole aside, that is exactly what CCP made this game for. Quote: Once again, I'm talking about HIGHSEC, I'm talking about assigning CONSEQUENCES to criminal behavior in HIGHSEC You're talking about putting more mechanical penalties on the only playstyle that has any to begin with, because like all carebears you are a selfish hypocrite. And like all carebears, you are playing the wrong game, and your narcissism won't allow you to admit it, so you demand that the entire structure of the game be broken completely to make up for your bad decisions. And the answer is no. In fact, I suspect in the near future that highsec will be rendered much, much less safe. And it will be a benefit to this game, because conflict is the beating heart of EVE Online. Thanks for YOUR opinion.. so many, many defenders of the status quo have ALREADY said exactly what you now posted; ho hum and yawn... Actual trends in Eve development of HIGHSEC gameplay tell quite a different story. Using BUMPING as a weapon in HIGHSEC without consequence = unbalanced gameplay. - CCP will undoubtedly address it. Stop acting so butthurt why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:21:30 - [24] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: wow, you seem like yet another butthurt proponent of douchery... I state my opinion based on valid observation and your head explodes? Sheesh! Whatever gave you that impression? I have no dog in this fight as I am neither a ganker, a looter nor a bumper. Your observation consists of telling people that they're douchebags because they choose to take advantage of the freedoms available to them in a virtual world with few rules; that's hardly objective, nor is it valid. As I previously stated, you are free to express your opinion, and we're free to disagree with it. Your childish attitude and name calling waeken any case for change that you may have had. If you continue with your childish attitude and name calling, then we will continue to treat you as a small child. Post like a rational adult and we'll treat you as one. except I'm pointing out UNBALANCED gameplay making use BALANCED game dynamics to your advantage is GREAT gameplay. - I repeat once more that I totally respect the efforts of SUICIDE Gankers in Highsec. Griefing players because you discovered how to do so without risk (using game mechanics not as INTENDED by developers) is indeed douchery.. What do you call it when someone preys upon the weak? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:28:11 - [25] - Quote Daichi Yamato wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Also how many cling to the notions that CCP made this game specifically so that people could harass, annoy and grief other players without any risk or consequences.. Your blatant hyperbole aside, that is exactly what CCP made this game for. This ^^ "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon Being ganked in HISEC ruins days - but I'm down with that.. - Gankers in HISEC must make great efforts and spend considerable ISK to make it happen.. Another "cornerstone" of Eve is "RISK vs REWARD" - that's out of whack if you can BUMP in HISEC without any consequence.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 19	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:33:26 - [26] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Using BUMPING as a weapon in HIGHSEC without consequence = unbalanced gameplay. - CCP will undoubtedly address it. If CCP do ever decide to address bumping, the first thing that'll happen will be change to the tactics used to cull the stupid among us, the next thing that'll happen is that those new doctrines will be used to make hisec burn on a massive scale. Hisec is currently mechanically safer than it has ever been, the more unscrupulous hisec players have seen their playstyle slowly eroded due to carebear creep. As a consequence of this, they are now highly organised and on good terms with the major players in null; you can only push them so far before they turn, and when they turn they won't be alone. What the heck is wrong with "carebear creep" in HISEC?? So what if they "turn"? Isn't that the gameplay you want? Why is the need to cull the "stupid"? - What makes them "stupid"? - Why do you have to call them "stupid"? --- Why? Because they want to play differently than YOU? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:37:29 - [27] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Another "cornerstone of Eve is "RISK vs REWARD" It's really funny when carebears talk about things they've heard of, but don't really know anything about. Risk vs reward applies exclusively to activities that generate assets into the game world. please verify that I read you correctly: So you say "RISK vs REWARD" applies to miners manufacturers and NOT to gankers? - so gankers should be able to harass with impunity? Seems like more butthurt talk.. I have equal say as you do, sorry. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 21	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:42:07 - [28] - Quote Mag's wrote: Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Another "cornerstone of Eve is "RISK vs REWARD" It's really funny when carebears talk about things they've heard of, but don't really know anything about. Risk vs reward applies exclusively to activities that generate assets into the game world. The funny thing is bud, what sort of risk is 99.9% chance of safe passage? So yes I'm totally OK with them only getting 0.1% in rewards. again I remind you that I'm talking HISEC. Trucks do get hijacked in New York State, but they do not run with escorts & such.. In Afganistan, it's another story. When I'm in HISEC, I want CONCORD to do their job. - I don't want the BUMPER sharing in loot acquired without risk. That's BS gameplay. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:51:09 - [29] - Quote Giaus Felix wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I have equal say as you do, sorry. When you post from a position of ignorance, you don't, and your ignorance is plain to see. I'll echo Jonah here, grow up or shut up. yet another seemingly butthurt defender of douchery.. I'd say you post from a position of stubborn obstinance.. - clinging to paradigms that support doucherious (is that a word? ) behavior why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:52:36 - [30] - Quote Mag's wrote: You seem out of your depth right now, in so many ways. just typing that don't make it so why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 16:57:20 - [31] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Mag's wrote: Strawman? Hardly. I'm using your logic. Prey tell how does the server know what the intentions are, behind an action? Maybe it's time to drop the emotional baggage? As funny as your trolling is, we've seen it all before. It's not original. thing is dude, that you seem butthurt because someone is trying to improve the game.. - to be more realistic - to be more "fair" in that douchery would have consequences.. You wouldn't be a proponent of wanton douchery, would you? I'm a proponent of Eve remaining a sandbox. The fact you label someone's play style as 'wanton douchery ' is irrelevant. You see in Eve you're able to do whatever you want, within in walls and rules. But others can also do the same. It's down to you to try and stop them if they interfere with your game. Eve is PvP centric, time to learn how to play. I personally don't want to STOP anyone.. I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed. - I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment.. Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:01:43 - [32] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: unless you're a bumping mach pilot for some reason It's not for some reason, I'll tell you what the exact reason is. It's because carebears are gutless worms who lack the wherewithal to inflict consequences on them. Of course they go untouched for the most part, because their only real potential opposition aren't real players anyway. ahhh YOU get to define "real" players.. I see. the way I see it, ANYONE who pays for an account is a real player. I have equal rights to yours. You play YOUR game; I'll play mine. All I want is that what is obviously UNBALANCED be fixed. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:07:20 - [33] - Quote Giaus Felix wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Giaus Felix wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I have equal say as you do, sorry. When you post from a position of ignorance, you don't, and your ignorance is plain to see. I'll echo Jonah here, grow up or shut up. yet another seemingly butthurt defender of douchery.. I'd say you post from a position of stubborn obstinance.. - clinging to paradigms that support doucherious (is that a word? ) behavior This post epitomises why nobody takes you seriously, and why the general consensus of opinion is that you're an alt being used to avoid the consequences of your forum griefing. Ironic eh? butt is really hurt, hey? just because my opinions differ. so you like to play at beating up on the weak.. I get it. - nevertheless, we gotta do something about fixing UNBALANCED gameplay. And by the way, I got some "likes" there are people who agree with me. All I want is for CCP to take notice and fix it once they are able.. - I don't think they will side with the douchebags why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:14:34 - [34] - Quote Serendipity Lost wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Daichi Yamato wrote: Bella, perhaps you should have read up on the game before investing in it. assume much? I'm assuming 'for comprehension' was implied in his comment. It appears you researched eve and decided it would be a great idea to start playing it and then over time attempt to inflict some form of your own personal moral code on the game and all its players, because you're a douchebag... err I mean, because what you feel is right - obviously is, so let's fix all this immoral stuff and all in the name of what??? For the children - sure you said 'for the new players', but you're basically holding a baby up as a shield and calling others immoral. The whole image makes me sick. You're the poison trying to infect a decade plus of engaging free form game play. This isn't HTFU, it's sincere advise. If you don't like the sandbox foundation that Eve is played on, go find a game that has a moral code you're happy with and enjoy it. In the end, Eve has been collecting folks that don't agree with your moral high ground (in the game) for over a decade and you will lose this crusade. Many many times I've watched players try to inflict / infect the sandbox with moral codes and dreams of safe and fare play. Eve Safe - you have enough dps, tank or logistics to complete a desired task. Eve Fare - if you can do it to them, they are able to do it right back to you. This is seriously not a HTFU recommendation for you. You're not going to enforce any moral codes on this game, so if that sort of thing is important to you, you'll never be happy here. can you just tell me what HTFU is? Thanks in advance. I'll bring up the point that Games evolve again.. - Eve is not static; it has evolved greatly.. I can petition for whatever I see fit. I'll be very happy once CCP is able to address and CORRECT this issue of UNBALANCED gameplay in HISEC space resulting from there being no consequences for WEAPONIZED BUMPING. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:28:20 - [35] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I personally don't want to STOP anyone.. Except bumpers ... Quote: I just want UNBALANCED gameplay mechanics/rules to be fixed. It is your, apparently uninformed, opinion that it is unbalanced, your opinion is not fact. Quote: - I agree to being able to do anything you want within a logically, BALANCED environment.. What would you consider to be a balanced environment, bearing in mind that it is already ridiculously easy to not get bumped if you're halfway competent, not afk, or of a social nature/ member of a social group? Quote: Did you know you can really do all kinds of evil things in LOWSEC & NULSEC? Your ignorance is showing again, of course he does, Mags is a lowsec player, he rarely, if ever comes to hisec. Like myself he has no dog in this fight, but doesn't want to see detrimental changes to the game which are purported to solve a problem that exists only as a matter of opinion. The RIGHT opinions do matter.. Some people were of the opinion that the WATER in FLINT, MI was not a problem. Oh and you are also allowing your emotions to color my post's meaning: - I sure DO NOT want to stop BUMPERS; I just want them tagged as CRIMINALS when they do it in HISEC.. Think about that a minute.. maybe you'll catch some light. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:42:22 - [36] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: - I said REASONABLY safe.. Ok, not trying to troll with this, but asking you seriously. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable? I don't like the idea that the BUMPER has nothing to lose when he does so in HISEC.. Now PLEASE, don't tell me all the things I can do. - find friends; join an alliance; bump back; hire mercenaries; whatever. That would be playing THEIR game, not mine. That's why I stay in HISEC and play SOLO. That's how I want to play. And please don't tell me all the BS that "that's not Eve".. I'm happy when this UNBALANCED element of gameplay in HISEC is addredded and FIXED, - it makes no sense to act like a criminal and yet avoid being marked as one.. Anf again, I'm talking HISEC. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:48:38 - [37] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: BUT it is a totally UNBALACED game mechanic when you can BUMP aggressively in HISEC without risk. No, it is not. You're just bad at the game. And you can't try to lie and say that you don't want safety in highsec, when you very clearly want precisely that. Wow.. you know I'm lying. Who are you, Karnac? Actually, I believe I'm pretty good at the game - the way I play it. All you are actually doing is TROLLING me. You add nothing of substance other than contrary comments & wild speculation as to my gameplay. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:53:30 - [38] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Bumblefck wrote: Who is your main (Bella Jennie)? It seems, given that you are such a fan of them, some consequences should perhaps come home to roost. Fourth time's a charm? Come on. You have nothing to fear from me - I'm a terrible PVPer. I just want to know in the interests of integrity and, you know, those consequences you keep on going on about. I reported your post for STALKING, SPAMMING, TROLLING.. Grow up why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 17:57:43 - [39] - Quote CAPTA1N OBVIOUS wrote: Quote: You add nothing of substance other than contrary comments & wild speculation as to my gameplay. But that's what you've obviously been doing. Rank hypocrite. Obviously, you are a terrible shiptoaster and this thread is terrible and should be burnt to the ground. Obviously. must I be a "shiptoaster"? why must my gameplay match YOUR criteria? Do you even realize how INTOLERANT you make yourself seem? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:00:02 - [40] - Quote Bumblefck wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I reported your post for STALKING, SPAMMING, TROLLING.. Grow up Are you serious? I'm asking a pertinent question (which you are deliberately avoiding, even expressly declining to answer would still be an answer) - it's pertinent because, as your whole argument focuses on the primacy of CONSEQUENCES, I think that it is important that the CONSEQUENCES you face from your POSTS should be ADDRESSED. Also, how am I stalking you? Is this thread your private property? Do you have some exemption that stops people form commenting on what you've written? How ARROGANT and CHILDISH are YOU? If you don't like what I write, please feel free to block me - otherwise, LIKE it or LUMP it! great idea! BLOCKED why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 22	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:14:22 - [41] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Anf again, I'm talking HISEC. So am I. Click that link, hit ctrl-F, and search "failed contracts". What you're looking at is the annual report for the largest highsec hauling group in EvE. In an entire year that organization failed to deliver 0.11% of their courier contracts, for whatever reason, be it loss to gank, theft, contract expiration, whatever. We can probably safely assume that an amount greater that 0.01% of their 235,505 total contracts was for a reason other than ganking. This is the kind of information people want when they ask for proof of there being a problem. This data reliably demonstrates that hauling in highsec is already at least 99.9% safe. This data reliably demonstrates that there is no actual problem here. Using the tools CCP provided to keep yourself safe isn't playing the ganker's game. It is playing CCP's game. CCP has had 13 years to do something if bumping was an actual problem. The simple fact that they have not done so tells me they are fine with it. Now, since you blatantly avoided actually answering the question, I will ask again. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable? Here's the thing.. Guy in a NPC Corp flying a Battleship BUMPS and cannot be touched when he is actually using BUMPING as if it were a Warp Scrambler.. - if he used the Warp Scrambler, CONCORD would kill him.. - I'm happy if he's just tagged as a CRIMINAL. When you use a WEAPON in HISEC, it's a criminal offense. BUMPING to prevent warping is like using a WEAPON. This is UNBALANCED. It's not the degree of safety; it's the EXPLOIT of UNBALANCED gameplay.. Can you dig it? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:28:14 - [42] - Quote Mazzara wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Anf again, I'm talking HISEC. So am I. Click that link, hit ctrl-F, and search "failed contracts". What you're looking at is the annual report for the largest highsec hauling group in EvE. In an entire year that organization failed to deliver 0.11% of their courier contracts, for whatever reason, be it loss to gank, theft, contract expiration, whatever. We can probably safely assume that an amount greater that 0.01% of their 235,505 total contracts was for a reason other than ganking. This is the kind of information people want when they ask for proof of there being a problem. This data reliably demonstrates that hauling in highsec is already at least 99.9% safe. This data reliably demonstrates that there is no actual problem here. Using the tools CCP provided to keep yourself safe isn't playing the ganker's game. It is playing CCP's game. CCP has had 13 years to do something if bumping was an actual problem. The simple fact that they have not done so tells me they are fine with it. Now, since you blatantly avoided actually answering the question, I will ask again. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable? Here's the thing.. Guy in a NPC Corp flying a Battleship BUMPS and cannot be touched when he is actually using BUMPING as if it were a Warp Scrambler.. - if he used the Warp Scrambler, CONCORD would kill him.. - I'm happy if he's just tagged as a CRIMINAL. When you use a WEAPON in HISEC, it's a criminal offense. BUMPING to prevent warping is like using a WEAPON. This is UNBALANCED. It's not the degree of safety; it's the EXPLOIT of UNBALANCED gameplay.. Can you dig it? your right, but bumpers will always cry the second anyone suggest changing their crappy tactic. As I see.. OMG these "uber players" badmouth "carebear's Whining" yet I have never seen such a huge procession of the badly butthurt! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:41:01 - [43] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Then explain how I could be butthurt when I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion. I am not a ganker. In fact, seeing as I have an alt with a nice Charon, I'm quite likely to be on of their targets. Yet I still support their freedom to use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to gank me, just as I use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to keep them from doing so. So now I have two questions for you to answer. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable and Why are you unable to use the provided tools to try and ensure your own safety? You were not the target of my "butthurt" comment.. But OK, I'll bite: Please define the tools provided which YOU use (or can use) to "tkeep them from doing so". Please educate me why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:48:55 - [44] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: CAPTA1N OBVIOUS wrote: Quote: You add nothing of substance other than contrary comments & wild speculation as to my gameplay. But that's what you've obviously been doing. Rank hypocrite. Obviously, you are a terrible shiptoaster and this thread is terrible and should be burnt to the ground. Obviously. must I be a "shiptoaster"? why must my gameplay match YOUR criteria? Do you even realize how INTOLERANT you make yourself seem? Play the way you want. I'll play the way I want. However, the rules of the game do not preclude me from doing things that bring us into interaction...even things you may not like. There is literally noting in the rules to say I cannot shoot you anywhere in the game or that I cannot bump your ship. Nothing. You may not like, but that is the way the game is, and always has been. Here is CCP in their own words, Quote: EVE is a game. Accept the fact that youGÇÖll lose your ship and the cargo in it. YouGÇÖll be set back a minor amount. DonGÇÖt worry GÇô youGÇÖll be back up and running in no time! But be cautious, if you put all your eggs into one basket. One often cited rule is: "Don't fly what you cannot afford to lose."[1] 5.3 SOME PLAYER JUST SHOT ME; IS THAT ALLOWED? In EVE Online, any player may attack any other player if they choose to, no matter where they happen to be. This is because EVE Online is essentially a PvP (Player versus Player) game at its core. If the other pilot had no right to attack you then CONCORD will track him down and punish him for his crimes, so long as the attack took place in high security space. If the attack took place in low or null security space, then it would have been down to you to protect yourself since you may be attacked freely and CONCORD cannot intervene in those areas of space. You will also need to bear in mind that if you commit an act of aggression or other illegal act against another pilot (such as stealing from them or attacking without cause), any pilot can then attack you with impunity, anywhere at all, for a short period of time thereafter.[2] The fact is you are quite simply wrong here. Play however you like. I'll play however I like and if that means I do something to you in game you don't like...well too bad. Not so fast... Shoot me in HISEC and you're toast.. - I'm toast and you're toast.. I'm totally fine with that.. BUMPING is an attack if it is applied to prevent me from warping.. - that should make you toast as well.. but I'll be happy if you're just tagged. Again, I'm talking HISEC only. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 18:54:57 - [45] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Then explain how I could be butthurt when I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion. I am not a ganker. In fact, seeing as I have an alt with a nice Charon, I'm quite likely to be on of their targets. Yet I still support their freedom to use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to gank me, just as I use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to keep them from doing so. So now I have two questions for you to answer. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable and Why are you unable to use the provided tools to try and ensure your own safety? You were not the target of my "butthurt" comment.. But OK, I'll bite: Please define the tools provided which YOU use (or can use) to "tkeep them from doing so". Please educate me A scout in any ship will be your first and best line of defense. He'll see the bumping ship and warn you not to jump into the system. You can even dock up. If you want to risk it, make sure your scout has stasis webifiers fit so that you can get into warp faster. Best bet is get a rapier and sit on the gate your freighter will jump through at zero, when he jumps in and decloaks and starts to align, hit him with the webs and you'll zoom off into warp. Timing is important. OK, I knew that. It's a valid point.. but why should the BUMPER have no risk? - especially since he's participating in an attempted gank? Why are you so keen to protect the BUMPER? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:00:27 - [46] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Then explain how I could be butthurt when I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion. I am not a ganker. In fact, seeing as I have an alt with a nice Charon, I'm quite likely to be on of their targets. Yet I still support their freedom to use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to gank me, just as I use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to keep them from doing so. So now I have two questions for you to answer. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable and Why are you unable to use the provided tools to try and ensure your own safety? You were not the target of my "butthurt" comment.. But OK, I'll bite: Please define the tools provided which YOU use (or can use) to "tkeep them from doing so". Please educate me In addition to the methods posted in the last few posts, there are a few things that you can do as a solo player. Don't put multiple billions of isk worth of stuff into a freighter. Don't put hundreds of millions of isk worth of stuff into a 21 industrial. Fit hauling ships, except blockade runners, and mining ships for tank instead of cargo/yield. Don't autopilot. Don't go AFK while undocked. If you need to pee, dock up. There are other ways as well. Googling "eve online how to avoid gankers" should provide a few more ideas. good points also.. I follow these rules pretty much. CODE scum use the BUMPING against miners as well.. that same GUY in an NPC Corp coordinating a gank in a miner.. without risk why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 23	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:09:59 - [47] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Then explain how I could be butthurt when I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion. I am not a ganker. In fact, seeing as I have an alt with a nice Charon, I'm quite likely to be on of their targets. Yet I still support their freedom to use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to gank me, just as I use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to keep them from doing so. So now I have two questions for you to answer. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable and Why are you unable to use the provided tools to try and ensure your own safety? You were not the target of my "butthurt" comment.. But OK, I'll bite: Please define the tools provided which YOU use (or can use) to "tkeep them from doing so". Please educate me A scout in any ship will be your first and best line of defense. He'll see the bumping ship and warn you not to jump into the system. You can even dock up. If you want to risk it, make sure your scout has stasis webifiers fit so that you can get into warp faster. Best bet is get a rapier and sit on the gate your freighter will jump through at zero, when he jumps in and decloaks and starts to align, hit him with the webs and you'll zoom off into warp. Timing is important. OK, I knew that. It's a valid point.. but why should the BUMPER have no risk? - especially since he's participating in an attempted gank? Why are you so keen to protect the BUMPER? Why should the freighter have no risk? It is the players that provide the risk to the freighter, who otherwise has zero risk in his activities, so why shouldn't players also provide the additional risk to the gankers? Your's is the most rational response I have received since first posting on this topic. I actually have no cogent answer for you at this moment - I'm thinking Frankly I was focusing on the total lack of risk for the BUMPER.. - but wait, all I'm asking for is that he be tagged as a suspect. Give me a chance to call a friend Give me a chance to recruit someone nearby.. Give HIM something to think about... What do you think? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:21:07 - [48] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Your's is the most rational response I have received since first posting on this topic. I actually have no cogent answer for you at this moment - I'm thinking Frankly I was focusing on the total lack of risk for the BUMPER.. - but wait, all I'm asking for is that he be tagged as a suspect. Give me a chance to call a friend Give me a chance to recruit someone nearby.. Give HIM something to think about... What do you think? I think if you want additional risk to the bumpers, it should be up to you to provide the risk. Use the same tools and mechanics the gankers use against them. and then I'm playing their game and not my own.. - I don't have the wherewithall, time & contacts to provide much risk on my own. throw me a bone, let me have an option; just tag them. I don't see a problem; it's HISEC after all it's logical; it's realistic and IMHO BALANCES the game from what is really a gankers advantage. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:24:04 - [49] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Here's a real solution to bumping. Each member of the AG community devotes one character slot to creating an anti-bumping gank alt and spends a few hours a week participating in coordinated anti-ganking bumper ganks. The AG community claims gankers aren't real PvPers, this would be your chance to prove it. The ganking community claims to be elite PvPers, this would be your chance to prove it. Additionally, the AG community would get a respect for exactly how hard being a ganker really is, and the gankers would get some good fights out of it. Oops... accidentally hit edit and cleared my original post here.... If ISD is monitoring this, is there any way to restore the original and make this a new post? What is AG? sorry really don't know I like the gist of your suggestion.. (I still want the BUMPER tag ) why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:26:03 - [50] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: All of this talk about how there should be consequences for bumpers, and not one of the people talking about it is willing to grow a pair and provide those consequences using the tools that exist to enable them to do so. Why is that, is it because they don't like the consequences, of which they're so fond of spouting off about, of doing so? Are they in possession of a large mouth but no trousers? Are they just plain unsuited to be playing a game of this nature? Answers in the form of amusing memes appreciated, antimatter answers also welcome BALLS? that;s YOUR contribution? How old are you? Really? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:29:33 - [51] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: Then explain how I could be butthurt when I have nothing to gain or lose from this discussion. I am not a ganker. In fact, seeing as I have an alt with a nice Charon, I'm quite likely to be on of their targets. Yet I still support their freedom to use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to gank me, just as I use the tools provided, whether intentionally or not, to keep them from doing so. So now I have two questions for you to answer. How much higher than 99.9% safe do you want before it meets your qualification as reasonable and Why are you unable to use the provided tools to try and ensure your own safety? You were not the target of my "butthurt" comment.. But OK, I'll bite: Please define the tools provided which YOU use (or can use) to "tkeep them from doing so". Please educate me A scout in any ship will be your first and best line of defense. He'll see the bumping ship and warn you not to jump into the system. You can even dock up. If you want to risk it, make sure your scout has stasis webifiers fit so that you can get into warp faster. Best bet is get a rapier and sit on the gate your freighter will jump through at zero, when he jumps in and decloaks and starts to align, hit him with the webs and you'll zoom off into warp. Timing is important. OK, I knew that. It's a valid point.. but why should the BUMPER have no risk? - especially since he's participating in an attempted gank? Why are you so keen to protect the BUMPER? Risk is not something CCP imposes. The only thing coming even remotely close is CONCORD, but that is not risk. Not at all.* Risk, it something players impose on each other in this game and is the very spirit of the game. Player A imposes risk on player B who tries to mitigate that risk. The mitigation can be direct--i.e. he shoots A in the face. Or indirect by avoiding A. So, the reason bumpers face so little risk is other players are unwilling to impose said risk on the bumping ship and pilot. *It is not risk because you cannot evade CONCORD. You can try, but even if you succeed that is an exploit. CONCORD is punishment and it is swift and it is certain. Risk is about an uncertain event. We can talk about the risk of getting ganked because it is not certain. We can talk about the risk of getting scammed because it is not certain. There is no risk with CONCORD, engage in a criminal act and CONCORD will burn down your ship with probability 1. If risk is ONLY imposed by players, then why even have CONCORD? Why have HISEC? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:38:32 - [52] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: and then I'm playing their game and not my own.. - I don't have the wherewithall, time & contacts to provide much risk on my own. No, you're playing CCP's game, not the ganker's. This topic has been brought up, ad nauseam, for literally years. If CCP hasn't fixed your alleged problem by now, and didn't come out and say "legacy code", then it's most likely they don't see it as a problem. Bella Jennie wrote: throw me a bone, let me have an option; just tag them.[/quote You have many options. Most of them involve not getting into that situation to begin with, which you can do with 99.9% reliability. Bella Jennie wrote: I don't see a problem; it's HISEC after all Yes, it is highsec, not totalsec. We're back to me asking how much above 99.9% safety is reasonable to you. [quote=Bella Jennie]it's logical; it's realistic and IMHO BALANCES the game from what is really a gankers advantage. Outside of simply bad luck, which doesn't really happen often, if you get into a situation where you're getting bumped in a freighter, you've already done absolutely everything wrong that you possibly could. At what point do you start taking responsibility for your own failure to protect yourself? OK, I did have a hauler shot out from under me - totally my fault because I assumed HISEC was safe.. I made appropriate arrangements to protect myself as much as possible. - I learned; I adapted. does not address my point: - what is so terrible about the SUSPECT tag in HISEC? edited to add: CCP has evolved the game to balance out the situation between HISEC players and the gankers.. - I really believe this is an appropriate fix and CCP will address it. - I believe the reason for no fix to date is more technical Time will tell why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 24	Posted - 2016.02.04 19:44:34 - [53] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: If risk is ONLY imposed by players, then why even have CONCORD? Why have HISEC? CONCORD punishes, when CONCORD is invoked there is no risk, only certainty. It is not a risk, it is a deterrent. Risk can be a deterrent, but not all deterrents are a risk. Much like how all squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares. wordgames are not productive towards solving gameplay balance issues why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 17:16:56 - [54] - Quote SurrenderMonkey wrote: Mazzara wrote: bumping is a cheap risk free way of holding someone in place, and just because ccp is ok with it doesn't make is any less cheap or any less of a mechanic that needs to be fixed. It's not risk free, though. There's the risk that a group of valiant white knights might suicide gank you, for instance. There's also the risk that nobody stupid enough to allow themselves to be bumped will come along and you'll just sit about wasting your time. Of course, both of these risks are significantly mitigated by the unwillingness of people to actually do something other than whine and cry like a toddler with a scraped knee. Sorry but I don't buy into the constant chant of: "you can do it to me as well" - well I don't want to do it to you - I don't want to play like you - if you play like a douche, I don't want to also be a douche.. I want the game mechanics/rules to treat you like a criminal whenever you act like one. - as always, I'm talking about when in HISEC. I even want you banned from HISEC if you're a habitual criminal. These are reasonable expectations for people who prefer to play "casually".. - and don't give me the BS about I shouldn't be playing THIS game or I'm playing it wrong.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 17:28:29 - [55] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Mazzara wrote: bumping is a cheap risk free way of holding someone in place, and just because ccp is ok with it doesn't make is any less cheap or any less of a mechanic that needs to be fixed. bumpers grab at straws to justify their exploiting of this weak mechanic, and cry about anything that would change that. Now don't get me wrong, if you wanna gank feighters in high sec more power to ya, but you should have to use a legit tackle and get the concord hammer like anyone else Anyone else can bump too. What does that actually mean? Are you suggesting that a broken, unrealistic game mechanic should be retained "forever" because it can be used equally by all players? That makes no sense to me because as I stated here previously: - I don't want to play like you. And NO, not everyone can use the BUMPING EXPLOIT in the same way.. - I don't "multibox" so IF I did bump, there's no follow up. - I'm not part of some ganking troop.. no interest either. And there must, or at least should be a wide range of ways to play a game - or frankly it would suck - and certainly it would NOT be the "sandbox" that all the power players seem to constantly invoke. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 17:59:26 - [56] - Quote This is still referencing the issue of BUMPING for the purpose of ganking without fear of any consequence to the bumping ship... A very common excuse for this "feature" to be retained - even is HISEC - is that when you play Eve, it is ESSENTIAL that others can "ruin your day" any time, any where and any how.. You should not be able to feel safe ANYWHERE! anytime.. (I suppose that if there was some way to screw with you while docked, the gank 'em proponents would love it) Really? Is "the biggest" draw of Eve the ability of players to act like jerks? Is non-consensual PVP a "cornerstone" of this game for real? - if that's the case, logic tells me that it's about the ability to pick on the weak. Is that it? The ability to pick on the weak? Is there really NO OTHER WAY to play Eve without engaging in PVP, joining a large corp and becoming a "pirate". - I mean judging from the responses here, if you want to be a miner you're stupid, lazy scum to be harassed at every opportunity; EVEN in HISEC. (I had asked: why even have HISEC then?) I stated that I wanted to play in HISEC and just be reasonably safe. This caused heads to explode and the hate posts went through the roof! (well, those are your jerk players I referred to) My thinking is that a game must evolve over time; CCP is doing it constantly and that's great. I think a game should have options to play in a wide variety of styles - even including a bit of couchery to spice it up - THAT is a REAL sandbox IMHO. Not a game overrun with jerks. So I wonder if a MODERATOR could possibly jump in and confirm this one way or another. - or at least give a bit of insight into this. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:10:39 - [57] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I stated that I wanted to play in HISEC and just be reasonably safe. This caused heads to explode and the hate posts went through the roof! (well, those are your jerk players I referred to). Wrong again. We asked what you meant by reasonably safe. Of you don't think 99.9% is reasonable, just what is? I'm not going to define this by a number - that's just a clever debating trap. I have repeatedly stated that: * I want you to be tagged as a criminal IF you act like one in HISEC * That's as best as I can state it right now - but with more (SINCERE) debate, new ideas, new definitions will spawn.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:19:37 - [58] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: These are reasonable expectations for people who prefer to play "casually".. - and don't give me the BS about I shouldn't be playing THIS game or I'm playing it wrong.. No they really are not reasonable. You're asking for the game to change for you, instead of adapting to it. If you play soccer then decide you don't like just kicking the ball, pick it up and run with it, you will not succeed. Same as with Chess. You may not like how certain pieces move, that doesn't mean you can change the rules to suit. Or playing CoD and wanting to be left alone and not shot, because you want to investigate the map. The point is you don't play soccer and expect rugby. You don't play Chess expecting checkers and you don't play CoD for a local tourist site. Quite frankly your stance in this regard, is ridiculous. I'm "asking the game to change for me" - OMFG!!!!! What if I had a really sound idea? You guys act like it's impossible to change a game.. however CCP is doing quite a lot of that. One last point and it relates to an on-line game business model. CCP is after all, in business. Suppose NEW players join Eve.. suppose they prefer playing in styles a bit different from the diehard Eve veterans.. - are you saying CCP should in no way cater to them? yet I notice CCP trying to broaden appeal to attract more players - are you suggesting this should be an exclusive game - maintained in a specific manner to the satisfaction of the veterans? yet I see CCP making changes in gameplay at the outrage of the most fervent veterans.. (look at the hate over SKILL TRADING! OMG!) why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:24:01 - [59] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I stated that I wanted to play in HISEC and just be reasonably safe. This caused heads to explode and the hate posts went through the roof! (well, those are your jerk players I referred to). Wrong again. We asked what you meant by reasonably safe. Of you don't think 99.9% is reasonable, just what is? I'm not going to define this by a number - that's just a clever debating trap. I have repeatedly stated that: * I want you to be tagged as a criminal IF you act like one in HISEC * That's as best as I can state it right now - but with more (SINCERE) debate, new ideas, new definitions will spawn.. Seeing as that is already the case, what's the problem? Oh and since when we're facts and figures a trap? Seriously? Are you for real? WTF? you know damn well what we are discussing here: BUMPING is currently NOT a crime; it has no consequences from the POLICE. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:32:48 - [60] - Quote bigbud skunkafella wrote: to recap, my suggestions to rebalance bumping to prevent or limit the extended (ab)use of this tactic with no consequence for the bumper are; 1/have an inbuilt limited use mjd on freighters as a tool to escape harassment from bumping. criticisms have been this is not enough to counter bumping in it's current form, to it being a 'get out of jail free card' for freighters. 2/ have a bumper obtain a flag after a certain amount of time that would enable the freighter pilots fleet to engage the bumper in a 'limited fleet engagement' type timer without interference from concord, also allowing the bumper to engage the freighter when activated. i believe the 2nd option can be coded in such a way to prevent abuse / flagging from accidental collisions fairly easily as i have outlined in previous posts . The way I see it, a "GET OUT OF GANK CARD" for freighters is a great thing --- ---> as long as BUMPERS have a "AVOID JAIL ALTOGETHER CARD" why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:38:34 - [61] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: These are reasonable expectations for people who prefer to play "casually".. - and don't give me the BS about I shouldn't be playing THIS game or I'm playing it wrong.. No they really are not reasonable. You're asking for the game to change for you, instead of adapting to it. If you play soccer then decide you don't like just kicking the ball, pick it up and run with it, you will not succeed. Same as with Chess. You may not like how certain pieces move, that doesn't mean you can change the rules to suit. Or playing CoD and wanting to be left alone and not shot, because you want to investigate the map. The point is you don't play soccer and expect rugby. You don't play Chess expecting checkers and you don't play CoD for a local tourist site. Quite frankly your stance in this regard, is ridiculous. I'm "asking the game to change for me" - OMFG!!!!! You are yes. You're asking for the core of the game to change, because you don't want to play the game. The whole 'your way my way' stance, doesn't mean the core of the game should change. Highsec is already reasonably safe. If you don't want to use the tools and options currently available, that doesn't mean the game has to change. That figure you and others hate so much, 99.9%, is based on factual evidence and directly concerns this topic. So again I ask, when the odds are so high in your favour, just what is reasonable to you? Unless you took part in the development of Eve or you work at CCP now, please don't preach to me about "the core of the game". And besides that, ALL things are subject to change. And YES, I want to play Eve. My experience in gaming and my strength of logic convince me that CCP will adjust the BUMPING mechanic when they are able to.. Unless they are truly catering to the harassers. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:42:18 - [62] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Mag's wrote: Seeing as that is already the case, what's the problem? Oh and since when we're facts and figures a trap? Seriously? Are you for real? WTF? you know damn well what we are discussing here: BUMPING is currently NOT a crime; it has no consequences from the POLICE. I'm discussing facts, not what you deem as facts. Try being a little clearer on future, as it seems you know it's not a crime. I'm still asking for evidence from your side, as to why this needs changing. Balance and fundamental changes to the game, should not be based on specific special circumstances, viewed alone. We need to look at the whole to understand if it is indeed a problem. So please, provide that evidence. I'm sure we'll all be glad to see it. You must be a liberal What you call "facts" are merely your opinions. Same as mine.. Equal to mine but only opinions. I'm going to add: I don't have to show you anything I don't have to prove anything - to YOU I'm merely posting here to petition CCP YOU can't do anything for me but mock me. You're not even a sincere debater. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:48:15 - [63] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Is there really NO OTHER WAY to play Eve without engaging in PVP, joining a large corp and becoming a "pirate". You can't play Eve without engaging in PvP of one form or another, that is bt design and is the considered opinion of the Devs. New Player FAQ wrote: Furthermore, as we mentioned previously, once you enter New Eden you must consider every action you take as a form of PvP since this is the core game concept. Quote: - I mean judging from the responses here, if you want to be a miner you're stupid, lazy scum to be harassed at every opportunity; EVEN in HISEC. (I had asked: why even have HISEC then?) Indeed; why even have mining then? That's a hyperbolic falsehood. Miners are treated according to how they act, a miner who is afk in a max yield barge or exhumer is treated as being dumb and lazy; because this is a PvP game where going afk is dumb and lazy. A miner who is at the keyboard, packing a tank and aware of their surroundings is generally treated with more respect. Quote: I stated that I wanted to play in HISEC and just be reasonably safe. This caused heads to explode and the hate posts went through the roof! (well, those are your jerk players I referred to) If you want to be safe in hisec, take steps to ensure your safety. you've added nothing new.. you're just being contrary while merely making the discussion circular. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 18:55:06 - [64] - Quote bigbud skunkafella wrote: bumping in it's current form is like going down the street , seeing an overweight old lady walking home with her groceries , repeatedly running into her at high speed to prevent her getting home for several hours , till your large gang of criminally minded associates come by to murder and rob her . at which point the police show up to take down the individuals who killed and robbed her, but ignore you totally . and it's also all her fault because she didn't bring 15 strapping blokes to protect her every time she went shopping.... Spot on!! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:03:24 - [65] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: What you call "facts" are merely your opinions. Same as mine.. Equal to mine but only opinions. I'm going to add: I don't have to show you anything I don't have to prove anything - to YOU I'm merely posting here to petition CCP YOU can't do anything for me but mock me. You're not even a sincere debater. Oh, please do save us from the hypocrisy. You claim you don't want to play like the gankers. Well, don't. Use the tools already available to protect yourself from them, like I do, and you won't be playing like them. Let those who fail to play the game as if it's an open PvP world suffer their consequences, and go about your business with 99.9% safety. Where the hypocrisy comes in is that, based on your stance that you don't want to play the game like someone else does, then everyone needs to play the game like you do. Neither of these options will work. Just simply do what I do, play the game the way you want to, all while keeping in mind that it's entirely possible for someone to come along and try to ruin your day. Oh, and before you sperg off about you talking about highsec again, even in highsec you should be actually playing the game. AFK mining, AFK hauling, AFK missioning, none of that is actually playing the game. Anyone doing those is actually worse than an NPC. At least the NPC has some intelligence, even if it is artificial. To continue on. One of the biggest draws of the game is that you can do pretty much anything you want, that includes being a jerk. If you don't want to be a jerk, you don't have to. You will, however, have to deal with them at some point. In closing, having seen that you still don't get it, I'm going to ask you those dreaded questions you've still yet failed to answer. How much more than 99.9% safety does it take for you to consider it reasonable? Why should you not be responsible for your own safety in EvE? Oops, almost missed this one, and that would've been a shame as it's so telling. Bella Jennie wrote: I even want you banned from HISEC if you're a habitual criminal. So, contrary to some of your earlier statements, you do indeed want total safety in highsec. Those "habitual criminals" as you call them are quite literally the only threat freighters face in highsec. Banning them from highsec will simply ensure total 100% safety for any freighter in an NPC corp. Gotta watch what you say in those times when you're spewing venom all over the forums. Your real agenda slips out when you do. I admit I don't have all the answers. I hope that discussion will spawn ideas.. but I do have a strong opinion about what is broken - and that is the lack of consequences when BUMPING in HISEC in order to arrange a gank. I read your suggestions; I know all about it. Many are valid - but they don't fix the problem issue for me. Read my other posts to address your "use the tools provided" suggestion.. I've also already addressed the "99.9%" number which you clearly enjoy spewing out so much. As far as the jerks, NOPE, I don't want to be forced to deal with them, in HISEC, unless they are killed when they kill me or, help to kill me. And if the opportunity to be a jerk is the main draw of Eve, it's kind of sad. You think CCP would be proud to list that as a selling point for their game? Really? I don't mind someone trying to ruin my day.. but I want them to pay dearly for it when I'm in HISEC. - At the very least, I want them to have THE RISK of paying for it.. in HISEC. Stop preaching about AFK; you sound like a CODE clone. Meanwhile, I don't play AFK; never played AFK.. but thinking about it now that you brought it up, I might enjoy the option once in a while.. in HISEC. You want status quo; I want evolution towards improvement, logic and realism. Bottom line you come off as quite an an elitist. and your tone quite condescending. I get it, your a top player. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:11:09 - [66] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: you've added nothing new.. you're just being contrary while merely making the discussion circular. I'm not being contrary at all, you asked if there was a way to play Eve without engaging in PvP, I answered your question; complete with a quote from the New Player FAQ that states everything you do in New Eden is to be considered a form of PvP, because that's the core concept of the game. That quote is not disputable, and I can provide others from the same official CCP document that further reinforce what it says. You stated that miners are treated as stupid and lazy, I pointed out that's what generally happens to people who are being stupid and lazy in a PvP environment such as Eve; just as it's what happens to people who are stupid and lazy in real life. I also pointed out that a miner who knows that Eve is a PvP environment and plans accordingly is often treated with respect. Your last point was that you wanted to be safe in hisec, I pointed out that your safety in hisec is your responsibility and that you should take steps to fulfil that responsibility. Nowhere was I being circular, nor have I stated anything that is false or misleading. Try harder. Jonah is exactly correct. Even mining has a PvP aspect to it. Since the belts are open to anyone if somebody comes into the belt then they can take some of the more valuable ore before I do. That is a type of competition, a type of PvP. When I sell something on the market and undercut the current lowest price seller I am going to take sales he might have otherwise gotten. CompetitionGÇªPvP. To say one wants to play the game and not engage in behavior that does not impact other players that person is just being silly. Hell, when I buy something off the market, it has an effect. Players participating in the market is what generates prices which in turn tell inventors and/or builders information on what to build. Prices inform miners on what are the best rocks to mine. Etc. with all due respect, reading your posts is an excercize in wordplay, nuance of definitions.. "even mining has a PVP aspect" indeed! it's comical. Comical while adding nothing to the gist of this thread.. I'm trying to make you aware.. no disrespect intended. Really. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:17:59 - [67] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Jonah is exactly correct. Even mining has a PvP aspect to it. Since the belts are open to anyone if somebody comes into the belt then they can take some of the more valuable ore before I do. That is a type of competition, a type of PvP. When I sell something on the market and undercut the current lowest price seller I am going to take sales he might have otherwise gotten. CompetitionGÇªPvP. To say one wants to play the game and not engage in behavior that does not impact other players that person is just being silly. Hell, when I buy something off the market, it has an effect. Players participating in the market is what generates prices which in turn tell inventors and/or builders information on what to build. Prices inform miners on what are the best rocks to mine. Etc. On top of that, there is the economic side we all know well. For Bella as a newer player: Whether we like it or not, PvEers/Industrialists need pvp in the game just as much as pvpers need PvEers/Industrialists in return; and highsec is a major centre for that dependence. If highsec becomes safe (at least from outlaws), the demand for replacement Freighters will drop. No demand to replace them means no demand to produce them. Similarly, the reduced CONCORDing of catalysts, taloses and other gank ships will reduce the demand to buy them, reducing the need to build them. When the ships aren't needed, neither are the fittings; and once demand the overall to build is reduced, the demand for minerals will drop also. More destruction in the game leads to more production, but the reverse doesn't hold true. Highsec systems like Uedama, Madirlimire, Niarja and surrounds are regularly in the top system statistics on zkillboard ( http://puu.sh/mX7eH/3b49e00fee.jpg ) highlighting their importance as major centres of destruction in the game. Similarly, regions that are mostly highsec are also significant in the game in terms of total destruction (Destruction by Region for September 2015). So whether we like it or not, everyone's play is affected by the amount of pvp that goes on in highsec, with the correlation that more pvp is good for everyone in the game. I guess, at least if outlaws are banned from highsec, there'll still be wardecs. Maybe a lot of the current gankers can switch and become wardeccers. PvEers/Industrialists will be fine with that I'm sure. Actually, you bring up an important point. The destruction of assets in Eve drives the player controlled economy. Please don't think I'm against destruction. I agree with you on the freighters and Catalysts completely. Just that I want to make it harder in HISEC. I'm actually with you: I want them to need & lose MORE Catalysts.. I want to add BUMPING SHIPS to the tally of destroyed vessels. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:24:43 - [68] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Spot on!! Facts you claim don't add anything, but poor RL comparisons are 'spot on'. Really? Because you are clinging, closed mindedly to your paradigm, you can't get it.. I even believe you don't want to get it. Because I'm telling you it's the BEST, clearest and most ACCURATE analogy of the problem I've seen stated to date and anyone who claims otherwise does so because it's against their agenda.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:26:27 - [69] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: with all due respect, reading your posts is an excercize in wordplay, nuance of definitions.. "even mining has a PVP aspect" indeed! it's comical. Comical while adding nothing to the gist of this thread.. I'm trying to make you aware.. no disrespect intended. Really. It's not wordplay, just well established and accepted facts about gameplay. OK, so how does it relate to BUMPING for the purpose of ganking not having consequences. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:27:56 - [70] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want them to need & lose MORE Catalysts.. I want to add BUMPING SHIPS to the tally of destroyed vessels. Don't you want outlaws banned from highsec also? You can't have both of those situations. Ganking characters are outlaws. That's been stated many times in the thread as a reason they can't be counter-ganked, because they are constantly moving when undocked to prevent being caught by faction police and other players that can freely kill them. So if you remove outlaws from highsec, you remove a large quantity of destruction, unless it is replaced by an equivalent increase in wardecs. these gankers make endless alts.. give me a break why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:32:42 - [71] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: these gankers make endless alts.. give me a break I'm a ganker and I know many more gankers than you, I have never met anyone that has made more than 3 or 4 alts and only one or two of them are gankers. I am curious where this misconception comes from. personal observation... anyway, your point is rather knitpicky... why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:37:00 - [72] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I want them to need & lose MORE Catalysts.. I want to add BUMPING SHIPS to the tally of destroyed vessels. Don't you want outlaws banned from highsec also? You can't have both of those situations. Ganking characters are outlaws. That's been stated many times in the thread as a reason they can't be counter-ganked, because they are constantly moving when undocked to prevent being caught by faction police and other players that can freely kill them. So if you remove outlaws from highsec, you remove a large quantity of destruction, unless it is replaced by an equivalent increase in wardecs. these gankers make endless alts.. give me a break Actually, they don't. They get banned for recycling alts. I had an alt with negative sec status that I needed to biomass in order to make room for a character I bought. I got convo'd by the GM shortly after I biomassed her to talk to me about recycling alts. Fortunately, I pay for all my accounts with the same card and had a post in the character bazaar about buying that character as proof of why I biomassed the ganking alt, otherwise it could've gotten hairy/ point taken.. I see dozens of newbie alts enlisted in the HISEC ganking teams.. I suspected that one guy runs a doz each - and he's an alt himself.. maybe slightly older.. I'll defer to your expertise on this one why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 26	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:41:24 - [73] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: these gankers make endless alts.. give me a break I'm a ganker and I know many more gankers than you, I have never met anyone that has made more than 3 or 4 alts and only one or two of them are gankers. I am curious where this misconception comes from. personal observation... anyway, your point is rather knitpicky... My point is you don't know what you are talking about and should stop posting unfounded lies. I did NOT do that maliciously although my tone was snarky. I did NOT know what I was talking about and I apologize why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:49:07 - [74] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: You don't have any of the answers, because you refuse to acknowledge them when they are provided. The lack of consequences for bumping in hisec is not a balance or mechanics problem; it is a people problem, until people are willing to inflict consequences for bumping then the bumpers will suffer no consequences for their actions. The crimewatch mechanic provides opportunity to punish ne'er-do-wells and last we heard from CCP this is working as intended. let's get to a bottom line.. I don't want to inflict the consequences. OK? I want logical, realistic game mechanics to create consequences - or at least a higher risk of consequences.. - in HISEC only Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic... - that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 21:55:39 - [75] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Yeah, I am kind of an elitist. No one who considers themselves a success at EvE isn't. EvE is considered by many to be the hardest MMO to play. One of the reasons for this is the very thing you're trying to destroy, the freedom of the sandbox. As for the condescending tone, when you stop and realize that you're trying to change one of the core tenets of the game for no other reason then you don't like it, of course I'm condescending. we're mosty just going around & around over beaten ground.. making 0 headway Changing the BUMPING mechanic in HISEC does not destroy the major tenant of the game.. Come to think of it, why are you even playng now with the advent of Crimewatch? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:03:27 - [76] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I did NOT know what I was talking about and I apologize Fair enough, now you think maybe you might not understand enough about the meta game and maybe just maybe y'all should stop asking for bumping to be "fixed"? Gankers are more than capable of performing freighter ganks without bumping, if you guys do somehow manage to formulate a good enough argument to get the mechanic changed, the result will be that is is even harder for you to do what you do as it won't be so blantantly obvious when said ganks are going to occur. No, I believe BUMPING without consequence is a flaw. It's illogical and unrealistic.. in HISEC. and if gankers can gank without BUMPING, what's your problem? Being a criminal is indeed harder in a law enforced area. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:08:46 - [77] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic... - that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you? here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:13:39 - [78] - Quote Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Paranoid Loyd wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: I did NOT know what I was talking about and I apologize Fair enough, now you think maybe you might not understand enough about the meta game and maybe just maybe y'all should stop asking for bumping to be "fixed"? Gankers are more than capable of performing freighter ganks without bumping, if you guys do somehow manage to formulate a good enough argument to get the mechanic changed, the result will be that is is even harder for you to do what you do as it won't be so blantantly obvious when said ganks are going to occur. No, I believe BUMPING without consequence is a flaw. It's illogical and unrealistic.. in HISEC. and if gankers can gank without BUMPING, what's your problem? Being a criminal is indeed harder in a law enforced area. Have you seen any argument from me one way or another with regards to bumping? I'm simply pointing out that every time the nerf ganking crowd thinks they are fixing something it ends up mostly backfiring on them. If you have the time to waste, look up the threads that had to do with giving freighters fitting and how the tears of the ignorant ended up making it harder on everyone but mostly the ones who were crying the most. Again, my problem is it is obvious you don't know enough about what is actually going on to have an objective opinion. you give me very little credit.. ouch But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:27:12 - [79] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Currently BUMPING in order to gank in HISEC does NOT invoke the Crimewatch mechanic... - that is EXACTLY what I hope gets fixed. I think if you look back through the whole thread; and the history of previous threads, that a lot of us that seem to be stoic opponents; aren't opposed to change at all. We would just like some solid evidence to show that a change is required. However, that aside; lets assume for a second that the evidence is convincing. Those of us that don't see a need for change also fly Freighters and the easy solution now is to just use webbing support. That reduces the risk of being ganked to at most 0.1% (but lower in reality) based on data currently available from Red Frog Freight (and more data coming in the next couple of weeks that will either confirm the RFF data or show a different pattern). So if the risk is less than 0.1% currently, how would you change the game to get it to an acceptable level of risk for you? here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity.. Ok, reason aside. How would you change the game? by including BUMPING in the Crimewatch mechanic why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:29:30 - [80] - Quote Mag's wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: you give me very little credit.. ouch I'd hazard a guess that's because you haven't posted anything that is deserving of credit. Quote: But if you are not afraid of a change in the BUMPING mechanic when done in HISEC, then we have no disagreements. I can't speak for Lyod, but for myself, I welcome change, unless it's bad change, which is what you're proposing. Indeed. I would welcome change, if it could be shown there is a problem. But being told of one without evidence and seemingly only a problem when focusing on a specific special circumstance, isn't how balance is achieved. It certainly isn't justification, for such a fundamental change to game mechanics. OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:34:01 - [81] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: by including BUMPING in the Crimewatch mechanic That's a little light on detail. Maybe we can drill into it a bit more. All bumping in highsec? That's an awesome idea. CCP should definitely implement that. well not necessarily.. just the BUMPING that sets up a gank.. - now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:39:31 - [82] - Quote Mag's wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: OK, then please tell me why BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is so vital as to be defended to such an extent as exhibited here? I actually answered that in the quote. Please re-read it. Oh, so you're just gonna stand on "it's fundamental to the game".. BUMPING with impunity in HISEC is fundamental to the game.. that's your opinion. OK but honestly, if that's it.. it's a pretty shallow and unrealistic game IMHO why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:42:11 - [83] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: well not necessarily.. just the BUMPING that sets up a gank.. - now I do realize this is very complicated technically.. it needs to be worked out and I'm sure the coding is quite involved as well.. The difficult part is working out the logic first. Once you have the logic, the coding is simple, since it just has to implement what the logic of the design says. The good thing about designing an algorithm is that the logic can be designed to a degree by anyone if you don't deal with the technical apsects of the code. So thinking about the logic: If you have an outcome to make bumping a crimewatch trigger if it is to set up a gank, what are the logical questions you would ask when bumping occurs to allow you to conclude that it is to set up a gank? So, starting at the initial trigger: 1. Collision in highsec occurs What the first question you ask when that happens? good question; good direction - so first: is it intentional or not? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 22:59:01 - [84] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: here's the thing... and it's not even so much about more safety (although who would NOT want to be safer?) It is about safety. If you fly with safety in mind, you almost never have to worry about getting bumped. If you fly with safety in mind, you can chuckle at the poor schmuck who didn't as you blithely warp away, secure in the knowledge that you're probably going to be making the profits he would have if the roles were reversed. Instituting a suspect flag for bumping will only give lazy, inattentive pilots more security. Instead of fitting for tank and bringing a scout, they'll instead rely on the AG crowd to camp the trade routes looking to kill bumpers. When the AG crowd isn't doing this, they'll resort to whining on forums to get yet another nerf to ganking. They'll use the suspect timer to justify a criminal timer. This has been an ongoing pattern with carebears. Rather than use the provided tools to get 99.9% safety, they instead try to get more. This happened with decreasing Concord response times. This happened with making Concord invincible. This happened with redoing mining barges and freighters. This even happened with the current Crimewatch system. It's never enough with you people until you get 100% total safety. Bella Jennie wrote: It's about getting to act like a jerk with impunity.. One person's jerk is another's villainous attitude. I know many, many gankers. Only a handful of them I consider jerks. Simply because one acts the villain in a game that allows you to be the villain doesn't make them a jerk. If you cop an attitude about them playing the game the way they want to, then their response isn't going to be positive. On the other hand, if you're cool about the loss, they will happily teach you how to avoid the loss in the future. the elitist attitude, the contempt for carebears... I'm never gonna get through to you.. All the changes you list are great improvements. I know you and the other veteran elites hate them. - that's why I asked why you even continue to play. Because it is about being a jerk; picking on the weak because you can. That's going to change. it's gotta change if CCP wants any hope of taking the game further.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 23:01:51 - [85] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: This happened with making Concord invincible. Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD. yea and waaay back you ganked 1st day newbies and played with cans.. - fun times, lots of laughs at all the carebear tears.. it was a game for jerks.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 23:08:46 - [86] - Quote Scipio Artelius wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: good question; good direction - so first: is it intentional or not? Ok, so to extend this as I think I know where you are going, the full set of sets might look like - Collision occurs - Is the collision intentional? - If intentional - suspect flag - Else - continue as normal So the net result would be only intentional bumping is a trigger for a suspect flag. The difficulty at this level of detail is that the question Is the collision intentional? After all, if I bump into you in highsec, how do you know if it was intentional or not? So if you break that question down further, how do you determine if it's intentional or not? exactly... so how about they check me.. I'm trying to align and warp; perhaps it's taking longer than it should or perhaps the BUMPER is doing more than once... maybe both situations being positive simultaneously cause the flag? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 23:10:56 - [87] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: This happened with making Concord invincible. Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD. yea and waaay back you ganked 1st day newbies and played with cans.. - fun times, lots of laughs at all the carebear tears.. it was a game for jerks.. Actually no. I never never flipped cans....oh, wait. No I did. I flipped a can flipper's can. He was in a stealth bomber I was in and asault frigate. He ran like a little girl. I did gank a newish player once, he took from one of my cans...I also sent him 2x the value of his loss....cause he was new and he was a good sport about it. We know who the jerk here is. games evolve, the pendulum swings.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.05 23:12:10 - [88] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Teckos Pech wrote: Iain Cariaba wrote: This happened with making Concord invincible. Yep. Some of the newer players may not know this, but waaaay back you could kill CONCORD. yea and waaay back you ganked 1st day newbies and played with cans.. - fun times, lots of laughs at all the carebear tears.. it was a game for jerks.. It had way more players and way more active players back then. Pretty clear which one the market prefers. Guess CCP screwed up then why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:39:28 - [89] - Quote baltec1 wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: ok, as an experiment, why don't you try going out and finding an overweight old person returning from the grocery store and repeatedly run into them at high speed to prevent them returning home, and see if the police turn up and listen to your argument that they had no right to arrest you because you haven't killed and robbed them, and were only holding them till your gang of criminal associates could arrive to do the actual robbery and murder. then , when you have been released from custody, let me know how eve bumping mechanics as they stand are totally realistic and sensible from a logical point of view . This is a game not real life. Again, why is this change needed when we already have a number of very effective ways to counter bumping. This is nonsense.. Eve is certainly modeled off of RL based SciFi.. not Fantasy; they didn't include magic spells.. And don't use the "LIQUID SPACE" card.. not many people could easily control spacecraft in a simulation of real physics.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:44:18 - [90] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Someone has yet to post any evidence that change is needed. I have repeatedly guy helps gank someone in HISEC and no one can touch him without being a criminal themselves.. - this is a problem why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:45:13 - [91] - Quote bigbud skunkafella wrote: ok, as an experiment, why don't you try going out and finding an overweight old person returning from the grocery store and repeatedly run into them at high speed to prevent them returning home, and see if the police turn up and listen to your argument that they had no right to arrest you because you haven't killed and robbed them, and were only holding them till your gang of criminal associates could arrive to do the actual robbery and murder. then , when you have been released from custody, let me know how eve bumping mechanics as they stand are totally realistic and sensible from a logical point of view . ... THIS... why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 27	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:51:00 - [92] - Quote baltec1 wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: if your position is that these mechanics are perfectly fine as they are and there is no point discussing any proposals to change them, then you have made this perfectly clear in your previous posts. so why continue posting? Why do you keep on saying "so ''illegally'' obstructing a law abiding pilot for a potentially unlimited amount of time with no consequences" after being shown multiple times that its not illegal and that there are many very easy ways of getting out and/or avoiding the situation entirely? silly.... We are saying that it SHOULD BE made illegal.. you don't realize that? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 29	Posted - 2016.02.06 13:57:07 - [93] - Quote baltec1 wrote: Someone has yet to post any evidence that change is needed. when someone has as closed a mind as you, No amount of "evidence" will suffice.. in any case asking for evidence is just a ploy.. when you got nothing besides, no one needs to prove anything to you.. CCP needs to be convinced. Let's see.. they established Crimewatch.. Concord Invincibility & reaction time changes.. Mark my words, they'll get around to fixing BUMPING despite your self serving whining.. - I'm thinking that it is a complicated mechanic technically.. and that's only why it hasn't been fixed to date.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 32	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:07:23 - [94] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: - so first: is it intentional or not? *facepalm The game engine cannot determine intent. Like, at all, it lacks the capacity. are you a game programmer? do you work for CCP? if not, what makes you qualified to post that? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 32	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:12:15 - [95] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Translation: Hi CCP, I demand you change the game to suit my desires and screw every other player who disagrees with me. BINGO! - just change the words "other player" to "dickhead" OK? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 32	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:14:26 - [96] - Quote Teckos Pech wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Guess CCP screwed up then Yes, by making the game safer. you can't make this kind of stuff up! you're a natural comic! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 33	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:22:56 - [97] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: so why continue posting? Because you keep posting your gamebreakingly bad ideas. Why do you think you're entitled to an echo chamber? errr, because he's not an obstinate, thread derailing, duffus? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 33	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:24:47 - [98] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: We are saying that it SHOULD BE made illegal.. And that not only breaks game balance, is not necessary, but is also impossible. You very literally cannot be more wrong. you forgot to say the "nah nah nah nah nah nah!" part why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 33	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:28:20 - [99] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: name calling and insults are usually resorted to by people who have no decent argument to offer, or are losing the argument, or are just plain ill-mannered, which of these are you? it's also regarded as flaming or trolling, which the isd has already warned about in this thread. you wouldn't be trying to get this thread closed down for some reason would you? Could you please inform your fellow campaigners of this; I, for one, am getting sick of being called a douchebag and a dickhead because my opinions differ from theirs. I see - but you feel yourself free to discuss my balls.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:41:27 - [100] - Quote Iain Cariaba wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Again with the name calling Bella, serious question, why are you playing a game such as this? You clearly detest the foundations that it was built upon and the opportunities it offers. Eve fills a niche in the MMO market, it doesn't need to conform to what other games define as acceptable behaviour because if it did, it would no longer fill that niche and be redundant. Filling a very specific niche is what has enabled Eve to survive as long as it has, while outlasting hundreds of games that did conform to the norm. I'd say that CCP have been doing it right for longer than the lifespan of most MMO's. I've been wondering the same thing. Bella, there are many other MMOs out there, some even space themed, that will allow you to have all the security you want while farming their currency. Why don't you go play one of them rather than keep trying to ruin the one game on the market that caters to people who want all that EvE has to offer? I'm not trying to troll with this question, I am seriously wondering why you play a game that seems to go against everything you think a game should be. I like the game.. I like the sandbox.. I like the backstory.. I like the "edge".. I like the variety of options in the things to do and the manner of play.. However unbridled freedom, I should say UNBALANCED unbridled freedom facilitates people playing like douchebags - picking on the weak... So I just want clean, logical BALANCE.. I think this really defines the problem this thread is discussing: bigbud skunkafella wrote: ok, as an experiment, why don't you try going out and finding an overweight old person returning from the grocery store and repeatedly run into them at high speed to prevent them returning home, and see if the police turn up and listen to your argument that they had no right to arrest you because you haven't killed and robbed them, and were only holding them till your gang of criminal associates could arrive to do the actual robbery and murder. then , when you have been released from custody, let me know how eve bumping mechanics as they stand are totally realistic and sensible from a logical point of view . that and my signature says it all.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:44:25 - [101] - Quote baltec1 wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: simple and effective rebalance You have yet to show there is any need for a rebalance in the first place. As already asked multiple times, why do you think you require more safety than 99.9%? I think you should just keep repeating this question over and over.. until it dawns on you that it's meaningless.. oh wait.. that may be never.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:51:31 - [102] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: name calling and insults are usually resorted to by people who have no decent argument to offer, or are losing the argument, or are just plain ill-mannered, which of these are you? it's also regarded as flaming or trolling, which the isd has already warned about in this thread. you wouldn't be trying to get this thread closed down for some reason would you? Could you please inform your fellow campaigners of this; I, for one, am getting sick of being called a douchebag and a dickhead because my opinions differ from theirs. perhaps my use of "dickhead" while perfect descriptively, was a bit over the top.... but now you know how us carebears feel whenever the douches call us that in their vitriolic disdain.. actually though, I like carebear.. it has "care" and teddy bears are cute.. it has a righteous connotation and I'm proud to play in that way.. but for the sake of spicing up the game, I suppose we should be thankful to those who choose to play the douche role.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 15:55:37 - [103] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: nothing is impossible just because you say it is. No, it's impossible because the developers have said it is. You want an example of what will happen if you mess with the base code of the physics system? Hit "Ctrl+Alt+Delete", then go into the task manager. From there, find a process (not a program) labeled "Windows Explorer." Then, right click that process and say "end process tree." That's an accurate approximation of what will happen to EVE if you mess with the base code. Oh, and if your proposal would add ANY server load whatsoever to the physics checks, you break the base game with lag. ANY check you add to the physics, even if you don't break the code itself, has to be replicated for each and every item, ship, structure, terrain, and every other thing in the game, all at once, all day, every day. You really should just learn to keep your bad ideas to yourself, carebear. you are coming off as an expert... clearly an expert of impossible why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:08:18 - [104] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: Jonah Gravenstein wrote: bigbud skunkafella wrote: name calling and insults are usually resorted to by people who have no decent argument to offer, or are losing the argument, or are just plain ill-mannered, which of these are you? it's also regarded as flaming or trolling, which the isd has already warned about in this thread. you wouldn't be trying to get this thread closed down for some reason would you? Could you please inform your fellow campaigners of this; I, for one, am getting sick of being called a douchebag and a dickhead because my opinions differ from theirs. I see - but you feel yourself free to discuss my balls.. Telling someone to grow a pair is not an insult, it is an idiom used to tell someone they need to do something for themselves. I haven't suggested that you do anything that I, or many of the other posters in this thread, don't or wouldn't do; in fact some of us do the things we suggest almost daily, that's how we know that they work. Calling myself, and others, douchebags and dickheads because we play within the rules, and disagree with your opinions and suggestions is insulting. I's childish, it's uncouth, it's rude and there's no need for it; it certainly doesn't help the, somewhat pointless and misguided imho, cause that you're trying to promote. douchbag is merely descriptive of the kind of antisocial, bullying, jerk like play many people affect in the Eve universe. I just don't think "pirate", "villain" or even "ganker", fully captures the essence of the behavior exhibited. so what's the problem? If you play like a douche, I can't call you a douche? - and if you DON'T play like a douche, I'm not even talking about you.. why take offense? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:25:05 - [105] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: are you a game programmer? Are you? Because I actually have some experience with coding(several years, and half a dozen contracted projects), enough to know that what you carebears are saying is not only a bad idea, but functionally impossible as well. I don't claim any technical knowledge, but I'm quite familiar with gaming and my sense of logic is proven in the real world. logic convinces me that BUMPING is broken: it's unrealistic and it's a GOOD IDEA to address it. here is the best analogy I have seen to date: bigbud skunkafella wrote: ok, as an experiment, why don't you try going out and finding an overweight old person returning from the grocery store and repeatedly run into them at high speed to prevent them returning home, and see if the police turn up and listen to your argument that they had no right to arrest you because you haven't killed and robbed them, and were only holding them till your gang of criminal associates could arrive to do the actual robbery and murder. then , when you have been released from custody, let me know how eve bumping mechanics as they stand are totally realistic and sensible from a logical point of view . As far as "IMPOSSIBLE" - I prefer to leave that to CCP why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 34	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:26:24 - [106] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: So I just want clean, logical BALANCE.. No you don't. You want to break the game utterly because you are too lazy and too stupid to use the existing counters. I say yes you say no oh my! why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 35	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:28:24 - [107] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: so what's the problem? If you play like a douche, I can't call you a douche? You certainly hold a high opinion of yourself don't you? Using your own criteria, your posting habits are those of somebody who acts in the manner you claim to despise; arrogance and obnoxiousness being two of the characteristics of a douchebag. Quote: and if you DON'T play like a douche, I'm not even talking about you.. why take offense? I play within the rules of the game, my personal playstyle consisting of slaughtering NPCs, the gathering/processing of natural resources, and not dying at the hands of my fellow players. In short I am what many consider to be prey, yet you took it upon yourself to label me, personally, a douchebag earlier in the thread, because I think that your opinions and proposals are all kinds of wrong. wow.. watch it.. you're acting all butthurt over a few words... next thing you'll be open to being called a CAREBEAR!!! Anyway, from your description of the play style you choose.. I have no beef with you.. - and certainly my reference to "douchebags" does not apply to you. The net of this is that we have differing opinions.. Fly safe, friend why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 35	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:44:26 - [108] - Quote Kaarous Aldurald wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: if I'm an ignorant, lazy, selfish liar; why do you even bother to engage me? Because it amuses me to watch you flail around and making a fool of yourself. Also, because I don't like lying. Some poor new player might come on here, see your nonsense, and not know any better. People like you are the true "griefers" in EVE Online, constantly lying to new players and trying to get them to bore themselves to death. in other words, you just like to troll well, troll on.. why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?
Bella Jennie Science and Trade Institute Caldari State 35	Posted - 2016.02.06 16:46:19 - [109] - Quote Jonah Gravenstein wrote: Bella Jennie wrote: .you think getting deeply into the definition of "CAREBEAR" serves the topic of this thread? You suggested I would be open to being called a carebear, you obviously thought it served the topic of this thread. You have my rebuttal to your suggestion. Oh I see.. whatever I write, you feel compelled to respond? why should this game belong to the DOUCHEBAGS?

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